Bonus Chat with Bryan Davis

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Valerie - Welcome to Bookworthy. Today, we are discussing the latest dragon tale from fantasy author Brian Davis. The Sacred Scales is book one of the Dragons of Camelot, a middle-grade faith-building fantasy adventure from the best-selling Dragons in our Midst story world. I'm excited to hear more about this new series from the dragon guy himself. Welcome to Bookworthy Bryan

 Bryan - Well, it's great to be here, Valerie. Thank you for having me.

Valerie - It is a pleasure. We are big fans of your books in our house. And so it's fun to get to have a little chat with you. But to start us off, I will start with our random question of the week. If you could invent a holiday, what would you celebrate? Or, of all the random holidays that there are out there, which one's your favorite?

Bryan - Well, there are hundreds and hundreds of them. But the one I think that I've tried to celebrate the most is National Donut Day. And I like the long johns with the chocolate cover, the cream filling. I don't get to eat them much. Otherwise, I'd get too bloated. But National Donut Day, let's go with that.

Valerie- That sounds good. Think my kids would choose that one too, because they're always a fan of donuts. It's not something we do a lot of, so Long Johns are a new favorite in our household, too. So that's fun. Well, Bryan, tell us a little bit about the Dragons of Camelot, book one.

Bryan - Well, Dragons of Camelot, it's got a long history. My stories started with Dragons in Our Midst, a four-book series that started with raising dragons. That came out more than 20 years ago. And it expanded to three series of Dragons in our Midst, Oracles of Fire, and Children of the Bard making 12 books. Because I was, I do a lot of selling at homeschool conventions, and a lot of parents tell me, wow, our kids love dragons, but you don't have anything for the younger kids. The absolute minimum age for dragons and dragons is usually 10. Some homeschoolers have eight or nine-year-olds who can read way up above, but not many can handle books this size. So Tyndale wanted me to do something for youngsters, eight to 12 years old.

So I was trying to think of what I could do, and in Dragons in our Midst, there's a flashback chapter that talks about what happened during the time of Camelot and King Arthur. So I decided to expand that and I had expanded it a little bit in Oracles of Fire but now I'm going to have a four-book series based on that period and feature two new characters, two 11-year-old kids, a boy, and a girl, and those are.

Those people who've read Dragons in our Midst are gonna be amazed at how much help these two kids had in the series. They were unknown, but now you're gonna find out what really happened to help the dragons. Well, I don't wanna spoil too much, but. Now, how did they survive?

Valerie -Hope the dragon survives, right?

Bryan - And I'm already writing the fourth book. The first one hasn't come out. I'll have all four books done before the first one comes out. So they should come out pretty quickly because they'll all be done.

Valerie - That's amazing. Now, how did your approach to storytelling change since Dragons in our midst and your other books are more for YA, and this one's more for middle grade?

Bryan - Well, I have younger characters. Whenever I have a challenging vocabulary word, I make sure that the context explains it. Or maybe one of the kids says, what does that mean? And then an adult will tell them what it means. And I didn't have to do that so much with the older, with the YA. Also, the kids, even though they're heroic and courageous, they're still kids.

They do what you might expect 11-year-olds to do, not always thinking through everything that they might react and you might try to do the right thing, but it might not always be the right thing. They're always good. They're always good and kind and try to do the right thing, but not always. It does not always work out that way, but it all works. It all works out in the end. And it's nice to be able to have more freedom to allow the heroes to make reasonable mistakes for that age. Because when they get older, and you get adult characters and readers are going, well, that was stupid.

Valerie -What, adults aren't allowed to make stupid mistakes?

Bryan - Well, not as much as an 11-year-old. But it was fun. It's been fun to write these books.

Valerie - Very neat. And it's, I've gotten to read through book one, and it's very fun to see how there are correlations between Dragons in our midst and your other books and just kind of be like, huh, I wonder if that ties in here and that kind of thing. So, I have read the sacred scales. No spoilers were trying. I'm trying not to. Well, the characters in your books speak very freely about their faith. Why did you decide to make faith a very big part of your books?

Bryan -Well, for one thing, I think it's needed. There are so many, even Christian authors, who try to put in little bits of faith. And that's not me. I live my faith out fully. I speak the scriptures. My wife and I pray together every day. We have devotions every day. That's our lives. And I assume that that's the lives of many Christians. So why hide it? Let's be overt about it if we're Christians; show how we live. At least, that's how I do and my family. Not all my books are like that. I have some books that are more Christian-themed. But I hope that if it goes to a wider audience, people will be pointed to my Dragons and the Midst books, where it is more overt and clear. So I do both, but for this series, if we have Christian characters, we're gonna have them living Christian lives.

Valerie - I think that's really neat because of your two characters, you have one that is very strong in his faith and one that is kind of coming to understand faith. It's neat to watch her journey and just how both characters deal with their circumstances because they both kind of experience the same thing as their inciting incident. But, you know, it's neat to see how faith impacts them both differently and how they cling to that, and it pushes them through the story. And we don't see that a lot in fantasy.

Bryan - And I did the same thing in Raising Dragons, and that one, the girl had the stronger faith, and the boy was coming to law. So, I just switched up the genders on that. So, you know, it's got to be fair.

Valerie - Very true. We all struggle, no matter our gender, for sure. Now, fantasy titles are pretty regularly the best-selling books in YA and even in middle grade. Why do fantasy stories resonate so strongly with young people?

Bryan - I think it because it allows them to have heroes that you might not be able to in other genres because, in other genres that are so realistic, people might say, oh, nobody's that awesome. You know, like Aragorn and Lord of the Rings and Aslan and Chronicles of Narnia. But in fantasy, people seem to allow it and say, well, it's fantasy. Somebody can be that awesome. Samwise Gamgee and Lord of the Rings. Know, who would ever be such a loyal friend? And allowing characters who are larger than life, I think, helps them to be better role models and, but they can stretch young readers and say, I want to be like that. I want to be like Sam. I want to be like Aragorn. And for my characters, I want to be like Billy. I want to be like Bonnie. And since they're in our world, that makes them more relatable and more reachable. So that's why I chose fantasy because I think readers forgive the unrealistic expectations a little more and allow them to allow the readers to be stretched. That's what I want to be like.

Valerie- I like that a lot, and I see that in my kids and that they're drawn to characters that are larger than life because of that insecurity that we have that, you, I can't do the hard things, I can't do that, but when we see larger than life characters, it almost makes it possible for them to think, you know, I can do the right thing. I can step up and speak up in this wild and busy world.

Bryan - And you wouldn't believe all the emails I get from readers who say they have stepped up. Could tell you so many stories, literally thousands of stories, anywhere from a six-year-old girl who said, I'm not afraid to sleep without my nightlight anymore, to a 17-year-old girl who got the courage to report the abuse from her father that she was suffering a 44-year-old man who repented of his abuse of his family and became a Christian. I could just tell you so much of this. So these characters help them to stretch and say, yes, I can do it. And then they do.

Valerie -That's amazing what books can do. And I love that you've had this, you know, with Dragon elements and all your other books, just this long history of seeing your books make an impact where a lot of, a lot of, least I've seen a lot of Christians be like, fantasy is no good. It's not for the Christian audience. It's like, no, it helps us see further into ourselves and helps us stretch ourselves so much. And I love that you have gotten to see that in your writing journey. Now have kind of a different question for you. I'm a bit of a King Arthur fan myself. So what made you want to have Merlin and that King Arthur world in your Dragon in the Midst and kind of work in that genre?

Bryan - That's an interesting story. When I first started writing more than 20 years ago, I was trying to figure out how to become published. And I had shared my stories with my kids. And so one night, I had a dream about a boy who could breathe fire. And I thought it was an interesting dream. So I told my oldest son about it. He was 13 at the time. His name's James. And he said that's a cool story. That's a great dream. You should write a story about that because it would be a lot better than the other stuff you've been writing. Great. Thanks a lot. So, we brainstormed on how to make this dream into a story. And we decided that this boy had parents who used to be dragons. And then my son just popped up and said, well, let's say that they transformed back in the time of King Arthur because I love King Arthur's stories. So was his idea to go back and make a King Arthur backstory. So we just brainstormed for a couple of hours until we came up with the entire premise for Dragons in our Midst. And I didn't know anything about writing fantasy back then. And at 13 years old, he had already read hundreds of fantasy stories. So he helped me. And now he's...He's 42, and he still helps me. Because if I have an idea, I bounce it off him to say, has this been done in any book before? Because now he's read thousands of books. He speed reads. And he'll tell me, well, yeah, that was done in such and such. But if you make a twist, he'll help me figure out something unique. And that's how it happened: collaboration with my son is how I got into the King Arthur part.

Valerie -I love how we keep coming back to great stories like King Arthur, and there's just something about that story world that has been done many different times, but each one is unique and powerful in its way. And because I think there is a very large, almost gospel message in the King Arthur story, a lot of savior themes are in there, too, that just help bring the gospel to the forefront of our minds and to be reminded of those things. I kind of like those little hints about King Arthur because I have a few of those books for sure. Now, what is it? Let's see if I can find the question. The sacred scales emphasize the importance of prayer. What do you advise, or what advice do you have for young people who want to make prayer more a central part of their lives?

Bryan - Well, you notice in Sabina's innocence in her young faith that she just comes out and says whatever's on her mind. She calls God Papa. And it's so intimate. It's so casual. I think I want young people to know that you don't have to use all the words that everybody uses: Holy Father, listen, and say His name over and over again. Just talk God loves you. And I want young people to realize that prayer is just talking to God. It's so simple, and God longs to hear you. And that's why I put that in there. So, in her simple innocence, all of my characters who are Christians pray in that way. And that's the guide that I want to give them. Just talk, tell God what's on your heart. And I'd like kids to learn to pray that way.

Valerie -Yeah, just to pray like they're having a conversation. Like there's usually they're so open to talk with, you know, us parents, especially when they don't want to go to bed, they'll open up an entire world. And that's the same type of world that God wants to be invited into. Also, it is just what's going on in our hearts and our minds. And I love that your characters make that tangible and in a way that is relatable to kids that are in that 8 to 12 range that they can talk to God. They can ask for help, and you know God may not always answer immediately, but he will answer, and he will be present, and I love that in your books. Now, when did you realize that you wanted to be a writer?

Bryan - Well, this goes even further back more than 30 years ago. All our kids are homeschooled. We have seven, and they weren't doing very well with writing the topic of writing. And I looked at the curriculum, and I saw why, because, you know, who likes vocabulary drills and things like that? So I said, let's just write a story together. I didn't know much about storytelling, but I was good at grammar and sentence structure. So I wrote a chapter and a story, and then I, my wife, read it out loud to the kids, and then I said, all right, kids, what do you think is going to happen next? What's the good guy going to do? What's the bad guy going to do? And they chime in with their ideas. Sometimes, they would contradict each other, but then the next week, I would write the next chapter and try to put their ideas into the story. So we just developed this story. And then after a while, I got them to, instead of telling me our ideas, I want you to write them down. And that got them into the writing mode. And then it grew. They started handing in two pages and 10 pages. I couldn't keep up

with their ideas anymore. So they just started writing their own stories, which is exactly what I wanted them to do. They got excited about writing. But what I didn't expect was that it would create a passion in me to write. Because I saw how powerful storytelling is, and I should have known because Jesus used stories to teach. But it helped me to realize maybe I could be an author and have more of an impact on the world. Because I was in computers, I was a total IT guy. And although it was a good job, it was moral and ethical and whatever. But it wasn't making an impact on the world. That's what I wanted to do. So, I started on a journey to become a writer. It took me a lot of years. The book I wrote with my kids ended up being a novel, and I submitted it to publishers, got rejected a bunch of times, and I started writing the Dragon's Book after that dream I had. And it took eight years to find a publisher for that. But it was this exercise with my kids that got me to want to be a writer.

Valerie - That's so fun. I've seen other authors, kind of, what is it? Think it's a buddy book. Trying to think. I know the same with SD Smith with his Green Ember stories. And I think even Watership Down was also like a story that he told with his kids, and it just became, you know, a novel. I love that stories can be just part of our family culture as much as it is a part of what we enjoy. Know, have a kid that has dyslexia. And so him picking up a book is not really what he's going to do. But if we read together as a family, if we listen to audiobooks in the car, he's still immersed in that world, and still, we've made it a part of our family culture that he loves to write comic books instead of, you know, novels. And so it's still fun just to make that a part of our home. Now, what's a book that's been most impactful in your life other than the Bible?

Bryan - Other than the Bible, okay. Can I name three books?

Valerie - I think I can allow it.

Bryan -Okay, my top three novels of all time have striking similarities. My favorite novel is To Kill a Mockingbird. My second is Mark Twain's version of Joan of Arc. A lot of people don't know that Mark Twain wrote the book Joan of Arc. It's his best work by far. He even said so. He wrote his endorsement that this is my most excellent work. And the third one is Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis. All three of them have similar elements. They're all written in the first person. They all are from an older person looking back like a memoir. But the most important part is they each have a trial, some kind of courtroom-type trial. And in each one, the person on trial is harshly judged.

Bryan - Kill a Mockingbird, the slave, I mean, not the slave, but the black guy, what's his name? I don't remember, but he was found guilty of raping a woman, and he was innocent. And in Joan of Arc, she was burned at the stake, and she was innocent. And there was a trial until we had faces. A lot more complicated and difficult to explain, but she was still harshly judged. So that impacted me severely, knowing that there's so much harsh judgment in this world. And one of the main themes that I have throughout my books is mercy and forgiveness. And I want my readers to understand that mercy and forgiveness are some of the most powerful things you can do. This world is so lacking in mercy and forgiveness. And I want to train young people to think in those terms that we need to be merciful. We've all made mistakes, and we don't know what is in the background of people who have hurt us. So that's what I try to do. And those three books helped me.

Valerie -You know, it's one of those mercy and forgiveness are very strong themes in your books, and I love how it is teaching young kids to look at things a little bit differently, too. I know in my parenting, one of my kids was bullied for a while. We just kind of had to sit back and be like, let's think about the kid that's that's bullied you. And we had an almost divine interaction where we got to see how he was involved with his older brothers. And so he's like, this is, do you see where this is coming from? And it's really neat. Yeah, he's hurting, and he's taking it out on you. And it was a great faith moment for my son just to be like, God sees me. He sees this kid and wants me to forgive him just as much as he wants, God wants to forgive that boy, too. And so it's meet for kids to see those instances where it doesn't make sense to forgive or doesn't make sense to give mercy and to see those examples.

Bryan -Yeah, and my stories, as you know, there are also truly evil people. And you have to, that's a different battle.

Valerie -Very true. Coming to terms with the fact that the world is not the way God intended it is another mental battle for sure. Well, what can we expect next from you?

Bryan -Well, like I told you, I've written all four of the series Dragons of Camelot that starts with sacred scale. Those will be coming out over time. Tyndale, the publisher, is also going to reintroduce all the Oracles of Fire and Children of the Bard books. So those will be coming out.

After I finish this fourth book of Dragons of Camelot, I'm not sure what I'm going to do next. I have a lot of ideas. You see this banner behind me, the superhero. I might write a sequel series for that. It's very popular. Kids love it. A lot of ideas. I haven't run out of ideas yet. So we'll see.

Valerie - It's a good problem to have. Well, Brian, where can people find out more about you and your books?

Bryan -Well, at my website, daviscrossing.com, or Davis, my last name, crossing, C-R-O-S-S-I-N-G dot com. You can see a sample chapter of all my books. If you click on the books link and, all my books will be listed based on genre, age, appropriateness, and then you can link to see sample chapters of each book. And, of course, all the retail places, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

Valerie - You are all over the place for sure. Well, thank you for joining us today and telling us a little bit about your dragons and Camelot series.

Bryan - It's been a pleasure, Valerie. Thanks for having me.

Valerie - My pleasure. And thank you for joining Brian and me on this episode of the Bookworthy podcast. Check the show notes for any books or links that we discussed, and let us know in the comments what holiday you would invent or what is your favorite random holiday. Is it donuts or chocolate or something else? Remember, it's not too late to join the Bookworthy Summer Reading Challenge. You can find all the information at www.valeriefentress.com.

Happy reading.