Navigating Middle School with Books, Jesus, and Heather Holleman

Heather Holleman shares with BookWorthy about her 3rd book in the middle-grade Elita Brown Series.

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Valerie - Welcome to Book Worthy, where we talk about the heart behind the books your kids are reading. Today, we're talking with author Heather Holliman. She is the author of several books for adults, such as Seated with Christ and Sent: Living a Life that Invites Others to Jesus. But in the last few years, she's taken these sweet truths she's graciously given to adults and turned them into a middle-grade series called the Elita Brown series. In the third book in this series, called The Elite Seat, Elita must discover how to persevere amidst the unique temptations of middle school popularity and the problem of self-consciousness. As she and her friends learn God's plan to live a life of forgiveness, authenticity, and service to others, even when seventh-grade survival feels impossible.

Welcome to Bookworthy, Heather.

Heather - Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

Valerie - I am too. I, what is it? After reading the Alita Brown series, I listened to your book Seated with Christ. So I feel like I already have you in my head from this, cause you did the audiobook on that. And so I'm like, this is just going to be a continuing conversation.

Heather - I'm glad, I'm glad. You know, by the way, it is very hard to record an audiobook. I just want to give a shout-out to the voice actor, actors. My throat ached for days. I'm not trained. I'm not trained, Valerie. Okay.

Valerie - Yes, definitely, in finding all the elements of being an author, you discover things that you're like, wow, okay, these people, this is a career. Well, to start us off, let's start with our random question of the week, which is, what is your favorite thing about school growing up and now as a writing professor?

Heather - Okay, my favorite thing is school supplies. I was someone who packed her backpack. I mean, weeks ahead of time, it would be ready by my bed. I love pencil cases and I love planners, like your little daily calendar. All of my friends are trying to get me to get on Google Calendar. No, I keep a hard copy planner. I love pens. I love school supplies. I love it all. So, school supplies and packing the backpack.

Valerie - I love that. And it's funny, this year before school got started, we just were so busy, it was hard to get to the school shop, school supply shopping. And my kids are like, Mom, we've got to do this. And I'm like, my gosh, why are we so excited? Like, I can just do a Walmart order, but they're like, we have to go and do the school supply shopping.

Heather - Everyone does like Amazon or Walmart, but there's something so cool about walking the aisles and picking out your folders. It's so sweet. I love all of that. I miss it. What nostalgia. We had Trapper Keepers, and I mean, I loved Garfield. So I had Garfield themed everything. Lunchbox, all the stuff. Did you? Did you have a theme?

Valerie - Let's see, I can't remember. I had a lot of paper bags, but when I did have a lunch box, this is going to age me a little bit; it was Wildfire. It's like this old 80s cartoon about a girl and

a horse with rainbow hair, and yes. Yes. So it's a fun time. It's just about getting excited about

something new, just like we do at New Year's and that kind of thing. I'm just excited to try something new. And your books do take place as your main character, Elita Brown, walks into seventh grade, I believe at seventh grade, which I have my own trauma with seventh grade. But I don't think anyone escapes seventh grade without a little bit of social trauma.

Heather - That's right, yes. I think everyone does.

Valerie - I'd love to hear your summation of these books.

Heather - Well, I wrote the Elita Brown series really in response to the need that my mom kept asking me, you, and me love the book Seated with Christ, Living Freely in a Culture of Comparison. And I would be going around teaching women how to know they're already

seated at the best table with Jesus. And I would share with them that the wound of fighting for a seat began for you. I can guarantee you it began for you in middle school. And women would start weeping. Valerie, they would remember the exact moment I walked in and knew I wasn't popular. Now, when I travel around, I'll say, Okay, how many of you remember middle school as like the best years of your life? No one raises their hand, maybe one person in a crowd of a thousand women, maybe one. And so, I like to bring women back to that moment. And what they said to me was, I would give anything if I had a book that my daughter could read to prepare her to kind of fortify her heart for that moment when you walk into the lunchroom and you realize you're not popular, that you don't have a seat. And so, the first book is called This Seat Saved. And my character, Elita, that's what they say to her. She can't sit with the popular girls. And it's also about the unique problems of that age, the eight to 12-year-olds. Suddenly, you become conscious of clothing, brands, what all the girls and boys are wearing, there's going to be some kind of problem with the phone, whether or not you're going to have a phone, or not have a phone. So, all those are in there as a way for parents to let their daughters and even sons read these books too, but they'll read them. And there are great discussion questions that help families really navigate how tumultuous these years are. So by the end of this, Alida realizes she is already seated at the best table with Jesus. And it's one of those books that I cry when I reread it because middle school was so bad. I remember the exact day. Do you remember that popular crowd, and like you weren't sure of your place?

Valerie - I had, what is it? I had my best friend basically tell me, I don't want to be your friend anymore because you're not cool. Cause I didn't have the cool clothes. And I was like, it wasn't at the lunch table. It was in the hallway, but I can't pick the day itself. But I remember just that gut-wrenching, like I'm alone, feeling.

Heather - Yeah. No, that happened to me. And it's usually about the clothes or about, yeah, and they'll even articulate. Girls don't mean to be mean. I don't know what it is about this age group, but they'll actually say to each other, 'you're not pretty' or 'you're not wearing the right clothes'. So book two, The Disappearing Seat, really does deal with that issue of affluence. What do you do when all your other friends have money and the clothes, and it is a really deep theological look at jealousy and how to know you're seated with Christ and all the riches of God's kingdom are available to you? And when you recognize his good gifts, you can be freed from jealousy. So these books aren't just like simple little books that your sixth grader is gonna read. You're gonna go deep into like, what does it mean that everyone else has all this stuff? And my character is more on the lower end of the economic, kind of like her dad works at a hardware store, her mom's a teacher.

And teachers make a great salary, but in this community, my character, Elita, feels poor. She feels like she doesn't have; they don't go on vacations. They don't go out to eat. And I live in a community here in Central County where there is that kind of divide. Either you've got a ton of money or you're someone who is working hard every day to pay the bill. So I really wanted to capture that kind of socioeconomic reality that when you're 10 years old, you start to realize it, if not younger.

Valerie - Yes, you definitely start to see it. And yeah, I think, what is it? When my son was in third grade, which is kind of that eight, nine age, is when those conversations started. And I was like, okay, I didn't have this conversation until seventh grade. Why are we having this in third grade? But it is coming earlier and earlier, and kids are more aware because they have so much access to so many things. And it is just this: why don't we have this? Why is this different? But I love the message of the disappearing seat that, now, we can be excited about someone else's seat because we can hold onto our own seat, and we can trust that Jesus still has our seat and our seat is valuable. And I think that that is huge in our, like you said, your comparison culture and that, you know, we can be happy for someone who has a good seat, and we can be happy with the seat that we're given. I wish I had that message when I was in seventh grade.

Heather - I know and I have to teach myself I mean the reason why the books are so powerful is it's a lesson that I constantly have to remind myself of I quote Ephesians 2 to 1 to 10 almost every day to myself that talks about being seated with Jesus in the heavenly realms But the thing I love about book 2 is it also teaches a journaling practice. I'm someone who loves research, and I love social science. I love neuroscience

And my character learns the power of journaling, and it helps with her anxiety and her jealousy. She learns to talk to God, write down five things she's worried about, and five things she's thankful for. Her mentor, Mrs. Burghley, teaches her a very complicated word, savoring. When you savor the good gifts around you, the research shows that you tend to live a happier, less depressed, and less anxious life. So, this is a deep little book.

The Disappearing Seat is sort of hard to get through. It's a little, it's set in winter. It's supposed to feel kind of sad, and I mean, this is a sad, dark time for her. And then by the time you get to book three, the Elite Seat, which is what I think you want to talk about today, it's about what happens when you do become popular. And that book is just out. And I really think girls are going to love this because what happens when you do have that moment where, wait, I'm getting a lot of attention. So, did that ever happen to you?

Valerie- Nope.

Heather -No, I know, I know, and me neither. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, someone did, actually, it was someone from Dallas who told me, could you write a book more about what it's like to be Margot? Because she grew up popular, some of the stress was related to that. So, in the elite seat, it has to do with a moment where she goes viral in a video with Margot.

Valerie - No, that was never a problem I had.

Heather - So I want moms to talk about what social media is doing to kids, the stress that this single video causes in the life of my character. And it's also about self-consciousness because people start saying mean things about her appearance. And it was right around seventh or eighth grade where I was teased for my complexion, you know, when you have acne or when you don't like your hair. I mean, I was so self-conscious, Valerie. I thought about my appearance all day long. This is a book that's going to help girls get some really biblical truth about how to handle their appearance.

Valerie - That's beautiful. I love that. The Elite Seat just came out. So, it's one of those, like, I can't wait to read it. Because it is, you know, appearance, whether you are popular or not. I mean, was it seventh grade? I had a perm so that the perm and the big, big bangs of the 90s.

Heather - The perm. Oh yeah, you gotta curl them. They look like a little claw with the hairspray. And when you were in the South, were you raised in Dallas? Were you raised in the South? Okay. So, did you start wearing makeup in middle school? Yep, that's when it all starts, seventh and eighth grade. Yeah, so we've got characters in the elite seat where, you know, all of a sudden, you're invited into the popular crowd, and it becomes really bad for her because she can't tell who likes her for what reason. And then this book really pairs with Seated with Christ as the moms or the caregivers are reading it because it answers the question, wait, if popularity isn't my goal, what am I made for? Like, what does God want me to do? Now I know the 13-year-old next door to me, there is so much stress about choosing your thing. What's your activity? Are you gonna be a dancer? Are you a gymnast? What are you doing?

Heather - So the question of the elite seat is, okay, now that the popularity issue is, if that's not the goal of my life, how do I know what the good works God has prepared for me are? What am I actually doing? And so she learns, and I don't wanna give anything away, but she learns, like, okay, what did you make me for, God? What am I doing here? And so, again, it's set in the woods of Pennsylvania. So the setting is very symbolic of what's going on in her life. And so the key featured animal or creature, there's always a little creature. This one is the hummingbird. And so there's a little flip book where you're gonna see the hummingbird flying across the bottom of the pages. The last book was the hibernating bear, and the first book was the fox, but each of those animals became symbolic of something the Lord is trying to teach her.

Valerie - I love how you've woven that in, because I know, as when I was in seventh grade, an animal was easier to understand than people.

Heather - I know, I love, I mean, I love Trumpet the Swan and Charlotte's Web and all the E.B. White books. I loved anything where an animal was in that book.

Valerie- But you've done a great job with the fox, the bear, and even the contrast between the bear and the owl and the disappearing seeds. And then, you know, I saw a turtle on the cover, so I'm sure the tortoise is going to come in to play with the hummingbird a little bit too.

Heather - Yes, there's the turtle and the hummingbird, and there will be one more book coming out. So the whole bundle will be four books. But I love that because don't you remember being in middle school and loving to get cozy and read? I, Valerie, we did not have a phones. I didn't have a gaming system. The TV was never on. We didn't have a computer. So after school, especially on a cold autumn day, you get all cozy, and I would read. I thought it was a big deal when I was allowed to read, Are You There? God, it's me, Margaret and Judy Bloom. So did you read those, or were they too adult?

Valerie - Judy Blume, I did. Are you there? God. It’s me, Margaret. I didn't read.

Heather - And Beverly Cleary, you remember Tales of the... Wait, is that... Who wrote Tales of the Fifth Grade? Was that Judy Blume or Beverly Cleary?

Valerie - No, yeah, Judy Blume wrote, what is it, Tales of the Fourth Grade, nothing, and then Ramona Quimby, and yes, there we go. We'll get it straight, maybe. But it's one of those, like, I grew up in Texas, so we didn't really get cozy very often with books, but because you get cozy, like maybe for two weeks in Texas.

Heather - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ramona, yeah. Okay, well, there's a lot of coziness in this book. Maybe, okay, then maybe you're a young reader, can be out on the porch with a cool breeze and sweet tea, reading books. So.

Valerie - Most definitely a sweet tea for certain.

Heather - I think that. So you guys don't have like the fall. Did you enjoy reading about that in the saved as kind of the way fall comes in Pennsylvania? Did you like learning about that and experiencing that?

Valerie - I did enjoy the process of fall and a particular lake element that's in the creek, the fertile pond. Yes, that was very neat. Because here in Texas, we get two weeks of fall, maybe, before. Because if it's a good fall, we'll get maybe two to three weeks where it's slowly getting cooler. But usually, it's cold for two weeks, then it freezes, all the leaves fall off, and we're now.

Heather - Yeah. And then you're in winter. Yeah. But winter isn't terribly cold, right?

Valerie -In winter, it's not terribly cold. It just sticks around, and it's usually wet. So wet and cold is just not, I don't think winter is fun for anybody unless you're like a kid in the snow. But I love that you are kind of taking this in seasons. And I love how your book for women, know, Seated with Christ, does kind of talk about that affluence, and you know, all those different parts of our own heart that need identity and belonging and value and just these core ideas that we all need. And why did you feel like these topics have become such a focus in our culture?

Heather - Well, honestly, I think it's a quintessential experience across ages and cultures because, as I've been going around, I published Seated with Christ in 2015. It doesn't matter how old a woman is or where she comes from. She's still, I think it's part of the fall. Know, Eve was in paradise, and, you know, the enemy was able to convince her she was missing something.

So I see that seed of like comparison and jealousy. And then, as you see, as you read through the Old Testament, you just see it's really about jealousy and power and who has the seed. I mean, if you read it through the lens of like fighting for a seat, you'll be like, wow, this is the problem in the human heart. And so the reason why it's such an enduring book is when you get to Ephesians two, you're realizing that Paul is writing from a Roman prison, but he seems to know some secret.

He literally knows some secret that we don't know, and it's how to be content in all circumstances. And the secret is Ephesians 2:6, which just says, you know, we've been seated with Christ, God raised us with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. And that image of the seat has a lot of theological continuity. Begins in Samuel, you know, when David says, Is there anyone I can show favor to? And that's that beautiful image of Mephibosheth sitting at the king's table, Psalm 23, that he, you know, prepares a table for us in the presence of our enemies. And then, of course, the wedding supper, the lamb. But you get this idea that there's a seat waiting for you throughout scripture. So I love it. And even in Colossians, Paul says, you know, set your mind there, not on earthly things. Set your mind on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. So we're fighting for a seat at the table.

You will continue to fight for a seat with the three A's: appearance, affluence, or achievement. Those are the ways you're gonna try to belong. And the message of seated with Christ is that when you're seated, you're already at the greatest table with the greatest King. You can adore, access, and abide, which are my three favorite verbs to help counter. And young people can learn those. It doesn't matter. I think 10-year-olds, even eight-year-olds, I've seen grasp these truths like, I can picture this, it's like King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, or maybe I'm picturing just I'm at a special seat with Jesus. I even had a really young reader, I think she might've been seven or eight, she goes, I love this seat with Jesus, and she goes, and it's not like musical chairs, nobody's gonna pull the seat out from under me, it's my seat. Like she was thinking of diminishing seats. So even little kids are like, yeah, I have a seat here, so.

Valerie - I think that is just really the call of our heart, to belong and be wanted. You know, again, like you said, back in Adam and Eve, that was the lie that they believed that they didn't have enough, and that started it all. And it's one of those, like, we live in a culture that's always working for this. Do this. The harder you do this, the more you do, the more you do, the more affluence, the more accreditation you'll have. It's like there's such peace in knowing that we don't have to do that.

Heather - No, and I love how you said that about the lie, that we don't have enough. That's a great way to say it, Valerie. Because I bet you, you have listeners right now that are like, yeah, I woke up depressed because I don't have enough. Well, let's see. Let's really ask questions here, you know, because Paul was in a Roman prison. Some people are like, You don't understand the seed I have. And I'm like, really? Paul was in prison. He was cold. He was hungry, and Johnny Erickson wrote the foreword to this book. Do you know who that is? You know why I asked her? My gosh. Do you want me to tell you?

Valerie - I do. Why did you ask her?

Heather - Okay. So Johnny Erickson, if you know, she had a diving accident when she was a young teenager, and she was in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. And I heard her say, I would rather be seated in my wheelchair, knowing Jesus, than be given a chance to walk without him. And it was about her seat. She did not like the seat God had given her, but it didn't matter because she was seated with Christ. And she wrote the foreword to my book, and it was one of the greatest honors of my life to have Joni Erikson read Cedar with Christ, resonate with it, and write that foreword.

Valerie - I love her story, and I love the foreword that she wrote for the Seated with Christ book, too, just because if someone who does not have what the world would say is a good seat can live a life so devoted to Christ and so focused on the good of God, then where do I have room to complain? And so it's a beautiful, beautiful story for certain.

Heather - Yeah, you're really making me think of good ways to phrase this. With the children. No, seriously, children who are always like, Mom, we don't have enough. I need this. I need this. You know, that was our life when my girls were in middle school. Like, why aren't we going to Paris? Why can't I buy? I mean, at the time, it was like Lululemon, or now it's like, you know, the Canada Goose Parker, the Beats headphones. I don't know what the brands are in Dallas. We're in a farming community. Yeah, we're in a farming community up here. So I feel like we're two years behind. Like all the girls are still wearing Lululemon, and I feel like in the south, they're onto something else. I don't know. You know what I mean? We're in a small town up here.

Valerie - And I'm not the great barometer for brands or that, I have boys, and boys are just like, do I have to wear clothes? I'm like, yes, you have to wear clothes.

Heather -  They're not into the shoes. Like my students at Penn State are all into like Hoka, OnCloud, Nike. It's all the same. These things don't, they're the same across, yeah, that's what I was gonna tell you. Sometimes, you know, older people will read these books and do book clubs because they're amazed at how they think so much has changed. But when they read the series, they're like, you know what? This is exactly how I felt in middle school. And they're in their 80s, talking to younger girls like, Look, these are age-old problems. This is not new. And we're going to give you the wisdom of how to get through this. So I love it when, yeah.

Valerie - Yes, love how you, I love how you did that with your Ms. Burghley character. And we all desire and want that older voice speaking into us. I love how you introduced her and the seat saved, and just kind of how she influences Aleta and reminds her consistently that she's seated with Christ. We are seated, and we don't have to strive so much because Jesus did it all for us. And so I love that we’ve lost a little bit of those intergenerational conversations in our American culture. And I love how this, what kind of presents like, my parents do have wisdom and have experiences. They're like, what? The neighbor down the road might need a friend, so it'd be okay to be an 11-year-old friend just to encourage her. It's neat to see a return to what God desired for us, a community of believers of all ages coming and reminding each other when we can't see our seat, that we do have a seat with Christ. So I love this series so much. And I've seriously handed it to my nieces and been like, this is required reading. I may not be your teacher, but I am required reading before sixth grade here.

Heather - Yes, yes, I love that required reading.

Valerie - And so, yes, yes. So thankfully, usually my nieces are like, Read anything you give me. I'm like, you have to read these.

Heather - You sound like a great aunt to them. I would love to have someone like you giving me books, saying, Love it. My love language is books. I have a mentor whom I based Mrs. Burghley off of, and I'm going on a walk with her this afternoon. Her name is Sandy, but she always has a book for me. She always says, Heather, I want you to read this book. You need this book. And so she literally will have a book for me today, I am sure.

Valerie - You'll have to email me what that is, because I would love to know, because books are love languages to me, too. It's one of those. Yeah, if I give you one of my books, you know you're loved because. So, a little treasure chest to me, so well, Heather, tell us a little bit what we can expect next from you.

Heather - Well, after the elite seat comes out, I have finished writing book four, which will wrap up the series. And so there'll be a nice little bundle of four books for your young reader. And then I am doing a lot of traveling and speaking. And one of my favorite things is when a church invites me to do a mother-daughter tea or a mother-daughter afternoon, where the moms come and we talk about being seated with Christ, and the daughters come and we talk about middle school. I've done a couple of those events, and so I'm doing a lot of that, and I just love engaging with the middle school audience. So I'm having a good time.

Valerie - It was from reading Seated with Christ. I could see how that book came first, but I can see how it very heavily influenced your desire to write for this age group. And I love that you're able to minister to not just the parent, the mom, and not just the daughter, but to both. The same wound is there, the same desire is there, and they can come together and just relish their place with Christ together. And I love that that will be good verb buddies for sure. Well, where can people find out more about you and your books, Heather?

Heather -Good verb. I love relish. That's great. I love relish.

Well, the ministry my husband and I lead is now called Seated and Sent. And so, you can always go to that website. But I think my personal website, www.HeatherHolloman.com, also has all of my books available from Moody Publishers, Amazon, or wherever books are sold. But always check to see what these kinds of bundle rates are. Moody is also awesome if you represent a school, church, or ministry. They will give bulk discounts. So I love it when schools, especially Christian schools, they'll have the seventh graders all reading and then I'll come in and do an author visit via zoom is so I love it. My gosh, Valerie, these kids, they ask the best questions, like how did you name Mrs. Burghley's dog? How did you figure out dialogue? Like, I love talking to young writers.

Valerie - They can just, they, what is it, as a writer you get this excitement and this heart, and with what you're writing, and I think kids get it, and that's their heart at everything. They want to explore everything, and I do love school visits and how that just empowers me to want to write more.

Heather - So you write as well. What are you working on right now? Am I allowed to ask? I know our time's wrapping up, but what's your next project?

Valerie - I do, yes. I know. Well, I have, what is it, I've self-published too, and I am just, ink is fresh on the page for a new children's book, hopefully coming out in the next year.

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Heather - Are you self-publishing, or do you have a traditional publisher for that? Are you serious? I cannot wait. And is it a children's book? I cannot wait. Congratulations.

Valerie -Traditional publisher this time around. I know! It is. Thank you. I am still trying to wrap my brain around it.

Heather - No, it's so fun. I've done self-publishing and traditional publishing. And what I love about working with a publisher is the team of people that really start to care about your book and the people, you know, if you read this, see saved, that's original artwork on the cover and the designs have a whole marketing team. Have you enjoyed that so far? Have they done the cover for you and all of that?

Valerie - We are just getting started, so we're in developmental edits right now. I'm excited. We'll see what God wants to do with it, we'll enjoy my seat, and let him drive. Heather, thank you so much for joining me today.

Heather - You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I loved our conversation.

Valerie - It's been a lot of fun. And thank you for joining Heather and me on this episode of the Bookworthy Podcast. Check the show notes for any books or links that we discussed, and let us know in the comments what your favorite thing about school is. Be sure to like and subscribe to discover more great books together.

Join the 2nd Annual Holiday Book Drive to help give the gift of reading to Title 1 Schools and Libraries Here.

Happy reading.